The Winter Garden Of The Kakita
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        • Demographics
      • The Structure of a Village >
        • A Typical Village
        • Ashigaru and Levies
      • The Development of Cities >
        • The Layout of the City
      • The Transition to War
      • Courtiers with no Court
      • Court Ranks and Status
      • Clan Variations >
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    • Mass Battles for Small Groups >
      • Armies in Conflict
      • Goals and Advantage
      • Squads >
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      • Hida's Gift
      • What Does Not Kill Me
      • Letter Addressed to Akodo Hirano
      • Research of Kuni Mokuna
      • Hida and Shinsei
      • The Beginning of Meaning
      • The Story of Osano-Wo
      • Battle of the Cresting Wave
      • Lion and Crab
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      • The Lady Doji
      • The Marriage of Doji and Kakita
      • The First Crane Thunder
      • The Legend of Daidoji Hayaku
      • The Origins of the Asahina
      • The Silver Kirin
      • A Soldier's Report
      • To Win a Heart
      • The First Hantei's Bride
      • Hiramori and Hiramichi
      • Tsume and Katogama
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      • The Sword Path
      • The Mysterious Nature
      • Journals of Matsu Chinojo
      • From the Novel Winter
      • Togashi's Secret
    • Stories of the Lion from the RPG >
      • From the Journals of Shinjo Gaemon
      • A Treatise on the Heart of the Lion Clan
      • On a Pedestal
      • A Letter by Akodo Rujo
      • Akodo and Matsu
      • Akodo and Ikoma
      • Akodo and Kitsu
      • Akodo and Shinsei
      • The Death of Akodo
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      • The Measure of Mortality
      • The Journal of Ide Amu
      • Regarding the Death of Matsu Kaiki
      • Observations of Agasha Tamori
      • A Kami on his Knees
      • Shiba's Wife
      • The Lady Asako
      • Battle at Fate Gate
    • Stories of the Scorpion from the RPG >
      • The Honest Scorpion
      • From the Journal of Matsu Sanuro
      • Letters from Daidoji Kukojin to Doji Yari
      • From Kakita Ryoku’s Famous Novel Winter
      • Bayushi's Promise
      • Frog and Scorpion
      • The Betrayer
      • Scorpion Fables
      • Bayushi's Thunder
    • Stories of the Unicorn from the RPG >
      • The Lady's Heir
      • Regarding Shosuro Kenjo
      • Letters from Akodo Toturi to Matsu Kojike
      • A Ride into Darkness
      • Exodus
    • Stories of the Shadowlands from the RPG >
      • Closing Night
      • Masiko
      • Meifumado
      • The Daidoji Yari
      • Letters from the Wall
    • Stories of the Nezumi
  • Fan Fiction
    • AEG Timeline >
      • Kaori's Stories >
        • A Ghost Story from Otosan Uchi
        • A Rokugani Fairy Tale
        • A Thousand Wishes
        • Broken Wings
        • Bushido
        • For Today
        • Gekidan Boukire - The Search for Doji Shizue
        • Ill Omens
        • Little Truths
        • Reflections of Honor
        • Shadow Stolen
        • Sunset at the Sake House
        • The Victory Tribute of Daidoji Uji
        • Watching the Heavens
        • War of the Heavens
      • The Stories of Other Writers >
        • Paper Folding
        • Arrival of the Crab Clan Ambassador
        • Forbidden Knowledge
        • The Journey of the Tear
        • A Song of Infinite Sadness
        • A Letter from the Scorpion - And Response
    • Children of Kashiwa Arc >
      • Beginnings
      • A Letter to the Fox Clan & Makoto - Complete Sincerity
      • March of the Kitsune
      • Words Against the Shadow
      • A Fox in the Works >
        • Chapter 1 - A Fox in the Works
        • Chapter 2 - The Way of Things
        • Chapter 3 - Maiden's Hand
        • Chapter 4 - Three Little Riddles
        • Chapter 5 - What Dreams are These
      • I Have Known Fireflies
    • Onyx and Ivory Arc >
      • Background for the Onyx Empire >
        • The Events of Winter Court 5
        • Between Winter Court and Empire Reborn
      • Who is Doji Arami
      • Light in the Leaves
      • A Hard Road
      • Kyoumi's Stories >
        • Jealousy (A Beginnings Retelling)
        • Snowflakes
        • A Piece of Truth (A Retelling of A Fairy Tale for the Scorpion Children)
        • The Crane Wife
        • A Horror Story
        • Bright and Precious
      • Kibo's Stories >
        • A Life Offered
        • A Life Taken
        • A Life Given
        • Mirror's Edge
      • Empire Reborn Arc >
        • Birds in their Nests >
          • Chapter 1
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          • Chapter 1
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        • Chasing the Wind >
          • Chapter 1
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          • Chapter 6
          • Chapter 7
          • Chapter 8
          • Chapter 9
          • Chapter 10
          • Chapter 11
          • Chapter 12
        • Ditched >
          • Chapter 1
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          • Chapter 3
          • Chapter 4
          • Chapter 5
          • Chapter 6
          • Chapter 7
          • Chapter 8
          • Chapter 9
          • Chapter 10
          • Chapter 11
          • Chapter 12
          • Chapter 13
          • Chapter 14
          • Chapter 15
          • Chapter 16
          • Chapter 17
          • Chapter 18
          • Chapter 19
          • Chapter 20
          • Chapter 21
          • Chapter 22
          • Chapter 23
          • Chapter 24
          • Chapter 25
          • Chapter 26
        • Duty of War >
          • Chapter 1
          • Chapter 2
          • Chapter 3
          • Chapter 4
          • Chapter 5
          • Chapter 6
          • Chapter 7
          • Chapter 8
          • Chapter 9
          • Chapter 10
          • Chapter 11
          • Chapter 12
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          • Chapter 14
          • Chapter 15
          • Chapter 16
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      • The Enlightenment of Fish
      • Tales of Golden Petal Village >
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        • A Summer Squall
        • Bitter Steel
        • The Storm-Tossed Cassia
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      • Storm Rising
      • Storm Breaking
      • Calls the Lightening >
        • The Fires of Otosan Uchi
        • The Iron Citadel
        • The Battle of Beiden Pass
        • Flight of the Crane
        • A Higher Cause
        • Fire and Smoke
        • Lost Souls
        • The Battle of Asahina Fields
        • A Flash of Lightening
        • The Day of Thunder
      • Calls the Lightening - Full
    • Stories from the Jesters >
      • Winter Warfare
      • Toturi and Mikio
      • Reju's Return
      • Careful Planning
      • A Political Water Conflict
      • The Last Kenshinzen in Kyuden Kakita
      • Commencement Speech
    • 1000 Years of Darkness >
      • 1000 Years of Darkness - Go Not Gently
    • Empire of the Emerald Stars >
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      • Dove Clan
      • Shimazu Family
      • Khoshuud Family
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      • Shinwa - Space Ronin >
        • Benjiro's End
        • The Field of Dreams
        • Catching Dragonflies
        • The Lantern Arc >
          • A Plea from the Lantern
          • The Shinjo Shipyards: Recruiting
          • Flyby the Lantern
          • Gennai's Garden: The Aftermath
          • Gennai's Garden: Late Night at the Hotel
      • Called Away
      • Hope is a Butterfly
  • Rokugan Mixology
    • Crab Mixology
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    • Dragon Mixology
    • Lion Mixology
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    • Scorpion Mixology
    • Unicorn Mixology
    • Others Mixology
  • Renaming the Gods
The Winter Garden Of The Kakita

The Winter Gardens of the Kakita

Fan Fiction for the Legend of the Five Rings

Honor in Legend of the Five Rings

6/20/2021

3 Comments

 
 In my previous entries for this blog, I wrote about a whole lot of things: The history of Japan and the way it incorporated different Chinese philosophies with some home-grown philosophies of its own,  Who the Samurai were,  the evolution and purpose of Bushido, and What honor means in English.  I could, maybe should, write about what Honor means in Japan, and maybe I'll take a crack at it someday,  but I'm not really qualified and I hope that I've shared that there are enough different philosophies floating around that it's clear that the answer would be dependent on which philosophic framework you're working in, just as Honor changes depending on context when used in English.

Instead, I wanted to write about what Honor means in Legend of the Five Rings.

Even from 1E, L5R has included advancement mechanics for status, glory, and honor.  These advancement mechanics also have related mechanics and roleplay consequences in conflict.   Having mechanics at all means that these things are supposed to be part of the conflicts that go into gameplay.   The tag line for the game from early on was: Where Honor is stronger than Steel.  It's meant to be important.  But what is it, as interpreted in the context of L5R?

In reading how Honor is described in the RPG Books, the kinds of things that generate or lose you honor, and how Honor works in the various clans, I have come to the conclusion that Honor is how well you measure up to the expectations of your social role.  In L5R, that role is generally Samurai.   You are measuring yourself against a scale from 'Everything a Samurai should never be' to the ultimate 'The Perfect Samurai'

The Perfect Samurai, as defined by Society as a whole,  is a purely collectivist and philosophical construct. It perfectly embodies a role, not as a real person.  It has little value for individuality or freedom of thought or expression.  It is not possible as a human being to reach that end, or even desirable.  But all Samurai in Rokugan, even non-samurai, would know as members of their society,  how well they internally paired up to that ideal.

The most dedicated Scorpion knows he is not the exemplar Samurai the most noble Lion is.  He believes that he cannot be...that there are ends more important than keeping to the strict bonds of the social role 'Samurai', and those things he is willing to sacrifice in order to achieve those ends.  If they slip poison into an enemy's cup, they know it is not what a correct and proper samurai, the Perfect Samurai, would be doing.  

Honor is not a matter of opinion, at least not opinion that can be fixed in any meaningful way.  Even if the Scorpion's player says 'I don't think my character will think that poisoning this person is a bad thing', that doesn't make the action of poisoning honorable.  If the Scorpion were not of an extremely low honor score already,  they would lose honor for doing it.  Honor is how close that character is to Rokugan's image of the Perfect Samurai.  In my opinion, if a Samurai were to undergo enough mental torture, humiliation, and beatdown, they could be convinced that they were less honorable than their actions would warrant, and if they were surrounded by sycophants and babied enough, they could come to believe that they were more honorable than their actions warrant, but this would require some serious storytelling and consideration and would generally require an adjustment of honor once they realized the standards they were living to were not the same as the rest of society. Just the character believing what they are doing is the right thing to do is not sufficient.


Honor is dependent on your actions, or lack thereof.  The Scorpion's deep and profound meditations on Honor will not make him more honorable.  His words alone do not change his honor.  He can try to define down or modify honor to improve himself, but it is what he does that will alter his honor, and the GM will award or remove honor accordingly.

For Honor is internal.  That Scorpion would still lose honor for poisoning the cup, even if the poison never detected and they are never found out.  They know that is not what an Ideal Samurai should do.

The Honor ideal varies from clan to clan as the image of the Perfect Samurai varies. This causes minor differences in what being Honorable means from one Clan to another and means the perfect measure you are going up against varies between the clans.  A Unicorn Samurai sees the perfect Samurai as more Compassionate than a Crab Samurai, and therefore if the Unicorn fails to be Compassionate, they fail to meet that ideal more than a Crab Samurai of equal honor would if they experienced the same failure to be Compassionate. A Crab Samurai  sees the perfect Samurai as more Courageous than a Unicorn Samurai would, and therefore if the Crab fails to be Courageous, they fail to meet the ideal more than a Unicorn samurai would of the same honor rank.  

The default or initial amount of Honor varies depending on your school or starting job.  How well an individual Samurai will see themselves compared to the Ideal Samurai varies from school to school.  Different starting honor: by doing what they do by default, the graduates of these different schools see themselves as hewing closer to or further away from the expectations of the social role of a Perfect Samurai.  Both the typical Crab Bushi and the typical Unicorn Bushi, with their lower starting Honor, would know that they do not fulfill the role of 'The Perfect Samurai' as well as a typical Lion Bushi or typical Crane Bushi. They likely do not want to.

​Honor is logarithmic.  The higher in honor you are, the closer you are to that ideal samurai,  the harder it is to become even closer to that perfect ideal, and the easier it is to make a misstep that drags you further away from that ideal.   

The higher Honor a character has, the fewer options they have open to them.  If a character does not care if they match a societal Ideal Samurai, they are free to use means that would not be used by the Ideal Samurai to achieve their ends, like, say, Poison.  The same options are available to characters with high Honor, but if they use such means, they will very quickly be dragged away from being high Honor. The act of using such methods makes you low Honor.  If a character values their honor, they would not use such methods, which makes achieving your goals more difficult.  Most  low-starting-honor School members tend to chafe at such bonds.

Overall, this gamified definition of Honor matches the definition, in English, of Internal Honor - An internal code of virtue and behavior that captures that individual's obligations to their role and their social group.  
The character's role is Samurai. Their social group is The Empire adjusted by their Clan.   Their amount of Internal Honor is how well they fulfill the code of virtue and behavior that describes the obligations of that Role.

The other two gamified attributes similar to Honor in L5R: Status, and Glory.

If Honor in L5R is Internal Honor,  Glory can be seen as External Honor - The external recognition of respect, status, and praise, especially by those considered praise-worthy themselves.  In 1-4E, Glory was your increasing reputation and recognition as an admirable person, and Infamy was your increasing reputation and recognition as a not-admirable person. If you had glory, you could influence people with your fame and their admiration for you, while you could use your infamy to intimidate people.  In 5E this has changed...Infamy and glory are on the same scale. This does not shift the definition of Glory, though. It just doubles down on the idea that Glory is not just 'fame', but it is 'reputation of being a very fine, upstanding person'.  Glory is earned doing public deeds that others find admirable and worthy, or even better than, your role as a Samurai.  The key attribute is that it is public.   The GM awards glory gains and penalties when the glorious action is observed or noted.  As External Honor,  Glory can also be potentially considered Face from the perspective of a Collectivist Society, though that has other implications.  

The last attribute, Status, is the Position the person has in the society, or the fealty network that Rokugan posits for Samurai and Lords, with the highest status person being the Emperor, and the lowest status persons being the bottommost caste of society.  You advance in Status by being awarded new job titles or more prestigious appointments. Someone greater than you has to give you status.  This is the same for 1-4E and for 5E.

These three attributes work together to create the conflicts the storytelling of the game is designed to tell.  But they all together work to describe the relationship of any Character to the ideal of 'The Perfect Samurai':
  • Honor - How well do my actions compare to those a great Samurai would do?
  • Glory - How much does society believe and recognize me as a great Samurai?
  • Status - What rights and responsibilities do I have because I have been recognized as a great Samurai?
Not every player and not every character will want to have stories about their character becoming a better, more ideal, samurai.  But Legend of the Five Rings is created to indulge the role-playing fantasy of 'I am a magical samurai', and therefore has these mechanics for it.
3 Comments
Raphael
6/22/2021 01:27:01 am

"You advance in Status by being awarded new job titles or more prestigious appointments. Someone greater than you has to give you status. This is the same for 1-4E and for 5E."

- Have a problem with that. I do not rememeber status to be in the 1E as separated logarythmic statistic. Can you point me to the source?

- Second thing you skipped the description of defaing honour by those with a great value in it process. Like when a person has 5 levels in honour in 1E or nearly 100 points in it in the 5E.


They start to have more room for action by defaing the rules of what is to be the perfect samurai. They know their action is just becaude they are just. External and internal. Can you comment on that a bit?

Reply
Kakita Kaori link
6/24/2021 09:35:45 am

Hi! Thank you for your comments. Status is not logarithmic. Honor and Glory are. You're right though...Status is not a separated stat in 1E. It is in 4E. Thanks for the clarification.

However, I disagree with your idea of defining honor by being near 100 honor. I don't see that in the rules, but it doesn't make sense to me theoretically either
A person who knows they are just and therefore may use that to justify their actions are, by that very justification, lying to themselves, which is insincere, and therefore they lose honor because of that, even before taking an unjust action. Saying that the social rules and social perceptions fade internally because they have reached the height of honor just doesn't fly with me, and I don't see anything in the rules that imply otherwise. Basically, at 100 honor, the only direction to go is down. That means that every decision will lose you honor. Inaction itself can lose you honor. If you would give a bu to a peasant at 100 honor, you fail because you could have given a koku. There is always improvement. That is not freeing, to me. It is binding.

Reply
Raphael
6/24/2021 12:21:57 pm

Hi lovely to see we can have a nice philosophical disscusion.

On one hand I agree with you about yhe honour one hundred. It is always a way down from that point.

On the other hand however, I would say that it is not some abstract role model but a real person at the end as model - The Emperor. If you know what I have in mind. It is a grey area for me not full cover by the rules. Maybe in 3E it was visual in one of the tabel of how to gain and lose honor on your actio where we have a clear justification on bending and breaking the rules by a person with high honour without loseing it. It is described in book of fire in my book on page 191. But it is not so important

That said I fully respect your answer and I am greatful for it. Thank you and have a nice day


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    Kakita Kaori, also known as Jeanne Kalvar, has played the Legend of the Five Rings Role-playing game since 1st Edition. 

    But mostly she enjoys writing fiction.

    If you want to read her thoughts on things other than gaming, you can find them here:
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